HomeMy WebLinkAbout1013972.
3.
4.
REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA
MONDAY, OCTOBER 13, 1997
6:30 p.m.
Call Meeting to Order:
Roll Call:
Approval of Minutes:
Public Hearings:
A.
September 8, 1997 and September 22, 1997
Case #97-090 NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER AN
AMENDMENT TO TITLE 5A (FLOOD PLAIN REGULATIONS) OF THE
CITY CODE RELATING TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE OFFICIAL
MAP, THE FLOOD PROTECTION ELEVATION, AND
NONCONFORMING STRUCTURES
Old Business:
New Business:
Announcements and Correspondence:
Downtown Steering Committee update.
Adjournment:
L: \97FILES\97PLCOMM~CAGENDA~AG 101397. DOC
16200 Eagle Creek Ave. S.E., Prior Lake, Minnesota 55372-1714 / Ph. (612) 447-4230 / Fax (612) 447-4245
AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
OCTOBER 13, 1997
1. Call to Order:
The October 13, 1997, Planning Commission meeting was called to order by Chairman
Stamson at 6:30 p.m. Those present were Commissioners Cramer, Criego, Kuykendall,
Stamson and Vonhof, Director of Planning Don Rye, Planning Coordinator Jane Kansier,
and Recording Secretary Connie Carlson.
2. Roll Call:
Cramer Present
Kuykendall Present
Criego Absent
Vonhof Absent
Stamson Present
Commissioners Criego and Vonhof arrived at 6:31 p.m.
3. Approval of Minutes:
September 8 and September 22, 1997
MOTION BY KUYKENDALL, SECOND BY CRAMER, TO ADOPT BOTH SETS OF
MINUTES.
Vote taken signified ayes by all. MOTION CARRIED.
4. Public Hearings:
Ao
Case #97-090 NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER AN
AMENDMENT TO TITLE 5A (FLOOD PLAIN REGULATIONS) OF THE
CITY CODE RELATING TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE OFFICIAL
MAP, THE FLOOD PROTECTION ELEVATION, AND
NONCONFORMING STRUCTURES
The hearing was opened to the public and a sign-up sheet was circulated to the public in
attendance.
Commissioner Stamson read the public hearing statement.
Planning Coordinator Jane Kansier presented the staff report dated October 13, 1997.
The public hearing is to consider several amendments to Title 5A (Flood Plain
Regulations) of the City Code. The proposed amendments relate the references to
Minnesota statutes, the establishment of the official map, the flood protection elevation
and nonconforming structures.
L:\97FILES\97PLCOMM~PCMIlC, MN101397.DOC 1
Some time ago, the City of Prior Lake submitted a revised flood study to the Federal
Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). The purpose was to revise the flood
elevations and the flood plain boundaries based on the outlet in Prior Lake. As a result of
this study, the 100-year flood elevation on Prior Lake was reduced from 909.3 feet to
908.9 feet. FEMA recently approved this revised study and has issued new Flood
Insurance Rate Maps for the City of Prior Lake.
The approval of this new study, as well as recent changes to the State statutes, trigger the
need for some changes to the Flood Plain regulations. The City had hoped to incorporate
these changes into the new zoning ordinance, but time constraints require these
amendments be done separately.
Most of the amendments proposed are minor and are essentially "housekeeping" items.
These amendments include the following:
1. Section 5A-l-1 (A): Change the reference to Minnesota Statutes from Chapter
104 to Chapter 103F.
2. Section 5A-1-2 (A) and Section 5A-1-4 (A): Change the reference to flood zones
from Zone A2 and A7 to Zone AE and A.
3. Section 5A-1-2 (B): Change the date of the official map to November 19, 1997.
The major changes to the ordinance are a result of the action of the State Legislature. In
the 1997 session, the legislature reinstated a mandatory 1 foot of freeboard for the flood
protection elevation. The result of this action is that the Flood Protection Elevation must
be at least one foot above the flood elevation.
This freeboard requirement was removed from the state law several years ago, and the
City of Prior Lake removed it from the local flood plain regulations on September 17,
1990. One of the City's concerns was the fact this new requirement will make structures
built after 1990 nonconforming. The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources agreed
with the staff's concerns. The DNR has drafted language which specifically notes the
flood protection elevation for structures built between September 17, 1990, and the
effective date of the new ordinance does not include the one foot of freeboard. This
language allows these structures as conforming uses, unless the structure is removed for
redevelopment of the property. This effectively addresses the concerns many appraisers
and insurance companies have about nonconforming structures.
Staff's recommendation was to approve the amendments as proposed, or with changes
specified by the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Kuykendall questioned jeopardizing the dollar value to the City with the
National Flood Plain's Insurance Program. Rye explained it was not in terms of dollar
value to the City - what it means the City would loose its eligibility where no one can buy
flood insurance.
L:\97FILES\97PLCOMMXPCMIN~N 101397.DOC
2
Comments from the Public:
Rick Johnson, 5283 Frost Point Cimle, questioned how many people this affects. He
guesses it is around 100 to 200 homes. Johnson realizes ordinances change over time.
He gave an example of lake elevation changes in the last 10 months.
Johnson went on to say Planning Director Rye was able to work with the DNR and
isolate a group of people who built (on the lake) between 1990 and the proposed effective
date. Those people are excluded from the one foot freeboard. The State changed the rule
in 1980. Johnson said his understanding is City ordinances cannot be more restrictive
than State ordinances and felt this was against the law and should be corrected. He feels
other lakeshore residents who built homes before 1990 are being penalized.
Rye explained homes built before 1978 were not under the Flood Plain Ordinance. Prior
to 1978 there was no Flood Plain Ordinance or regulations.
Johnson said when he bought his home he did not know it was in the flood plain and feels
his home value has decreased and feels restricted on remodeling. He also felt hardship on
replacing his home if it bums down. Johnson said his property is non-buildable and is
taxed higher than his neighbors. He thinks the City made a major mistake allowing his
house to be built in 1974. Johnson questioned why people from 1990 to the current date
allowed to build, when the other people who followed the City at the time penalized.
Kansier said the rationale is the homes built between 1990 and the current date were built
at or above the flood elevation and should not be subject to flooding. Whereas homes
built prior to 1978 were most likely not built to the flood elevation and would be subject
to flooding.
Johnson summarized by saying a letter should have gone out to all lakeshore residents
affected in the flood plain. The City should lower the overall flood elevation and upgrade
the outlet. It is up to the City to fix it. Prior Lake should vision for growth.
Rye and Kansier clarified the 100 year flood elevation and freeboard. They went on to
explain the State legislature is regulating what the City is doing. The City does not have
an option. If the City does not participate, they will not be able participate in the Flood
Insurance program and the residents will not be able to buy flood insurance.
John Titus, 5331 Frost Point Circle, called the Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
and talked to Bret Anderson who indicated to him the primary reason for the increase in
the flood plain was because of Prior Lake's massive growth and anticipated growth. The
impervious surface will cause more potential runoff and flood damage. There have been
many discussions on the flood plain. Titus asked Mr. Anderson (DNR) what could be
done to alleviate the problem. Anderson gave the City of Buffalo as an example of
flooding. Titus suggested a spill way, letting the high water out of the lake. Titus
questioned if anyone has done a study to construct such a spill way. How can the City
exempt a few people from building since 1990 and not jeopardize the insurance?
L:\97FILES\97PLCOMM\PCMINhMN 101397 .DOC
Commissioner Vonhof explained Prior Lake is the end of the watershed. People do not
realize what the watershed is comprised of and Prior Lake is one element of the entire
watershed.
Rye addressed the changes in ordinances and that the Watershed is currently revising and
updating their plans. The solution Mr. Titus is proposing is going to cost a lot of money.
The City does not know the Watershed's timeline.
Rick Johnson, 5283 Frost Point, noticed in the City's ordinance verbiage, "generally" is
omitted from the DNR's.
Commissioner Stamson explained it was too vague and up to interpretation.
Mark Kubes, 5527 Frost Point, questioned the one foot freeboard affecting the flood
elevation. Rye and Kansier explained the flood plain regulations and insurance. The
ordinance is allowing the City and residents eligible for flood insurance. The DNR's
concern is preventing flood damage and safety. Their goal is to minimize damage to
property. The additional foot of freeboard is an additional foot of protection for everyone
involved. Mr. Kubes questioned remodeling and regulating Spring Lake flowing into
Prior Lake. Rye addressed the remodeling and explained the Planning Commission does
not address lake regulations. The Watershed District takes care of the entire watershed
area.
Commissioner Cramer asked staff for clarification on the legislation and the Army Corps
of Engineers. Rye explained the flood plain management program authorized by FEMA.
Every city has to be in compliance to be in the program to get flood insurance.
Rick Johnson stated he does not understand the FEMA map or the dates. Johnson said he
talked to a civil engineer who told him the City cannot have more restrictive ordinances
than the State. Again, Rye explained the flood plain and the amendments.
Commissioner Criego clarified that anyone building between 1978 to 1990, should be
above the flood elevation. Buildings from 1990 to 1997, are covered under exemption.
Paul Kramer, 15310 Edgewater, said he came not knowing a lot about the issue but now
has a better understanding. He feels there should be more research and information
before a determination is made. Johnson questioned how many people were affected?
Rye asked what does he mean "who is affected?" Kramer felt if you built before 78 you
are forced to get insurance. Rye said nobody is forcing anyone to get insurance. The
mortgage companies may require it. It is not a requirement of either the City or State.
The revised flood study took some people out of the flood plain.
L:\97FILES\97PLCOMM~CMIN~MNI 01397.DOC
Commissioner Criego clarified you do not have to get insurance if you are over the 908.9.
It only is restricted the degree of protection to your property. The City is following the
State guidelines for new structures in the flood plain.
Rye explained the City adopts rules consistent with the State regulations. The State
adopts a set of flood plain regulations. The City has to adopt a flood plain ordinance
consistent with those regulations. By doing so the City has made the property owners in
the community eligible to receive flood insurance. The City is not involved in providing
insurance. That is between the property owner and their insurance agent.
Rye gave examples of providing protection in the flood plain. Basically elevate.
Bob Bickett, 5241 Frost Point Circle, asked the Commissioners not to railroad the
citizens and give them time to understand what was going on. He knew this notice was in
the paper but did not understand what was going to be discussed tonight and that it was
going to affect everyone on the lake. His house was built in 1982 and stated he does not
know how to read the FEMA map. Bickett said he does not feel residents should have to
hire an engineer to figure out if they comply or not and the homeowners should be
notified by letters. The citizens would like to improve the value of their homes.
John Titus, 5331 Frost Point Circle, commented he asked Bret Anderson from the DNR
for clarification of the freeboard number. His understanding of the 908.9 is the average
water depth. We are all envisioning a perfectly pristine body of water which doesn't exist
in the real world. If we have a 2 foot wave then one foot above that is the peak of the
wave and all of us want to be out of the wave. It is a practical thing to add a foot to it.
The public hearing was closed at 7:35 p.m.
Comments from Commissioners:
Vonhof:
· Lives in the flood plain and explained his experience with FEMA. He applied for a
LOMA (Letter of Map Amendment) through FEMA.
· He also explained to the public how to deal with FEMA.
· No private insurance company can write insurance outside a flood zone. If you are
not in the flood zone and try to get them to write a policy for you, they won't. That is
part of the issue why this is very critical.
· FEMA is a national program and is largely supported by our federal tax dollars.
Everyone should be concerned about this - even those who are not impacted.
· The statutory change is correct. It makes sense.
· Redating the map is fine. Verbiage is okay.
· Asked staffwith the one foot freeboard if the flood zones changed. Staff said zones
have been reduced.
· Pointed out the ever changing lake elevations.
· The only impact is the structures below the 908.9.
L:\97FILES\97PLCOMM~PCMIN~N 101397. DOC
Kuykendall:
· The issue of notification of residents - the City follows the legal process. The time
and cost to the City to locate lakeshore property owners, especially absentee property
owners would be very high. Anything controversial hits the press.
· Did not have time to look into the matter until a few days ago, not against tabling.
· He would rather be informed from the Watershed District.
· The Watershed has the ability to tax the infrastructure but what is the impact?
· The staffkeeps the Commissioners informed from other Prior Lake Advisory Boards.
· The Planning Commission and staffhave been planning for growth. The Planning
Commissioners cannot control what goes on outside the city limits.
· More research has to be done by the Watershed District.
· Fewer people are impacted today with the proposal. It was more restrictive. This is
an improvement.
Criego:
· The new zoning ordinance public hearing is continued to November 24, 1997.
· The proposal does not affect the insurance.
· The problem is if you are in a flood plain and want to make changes to your home
you have to have protection.
· Clarifications of improvements.
· The State is dictating what has to be done. People in the flood plain need insurance.
Cramer:
· Greatest concem is the people who need flood insurance can still get flood insurance.
· Concurs with the rest of the Commissioners.
Stamson:
· The DNR has given their blessing on exempting the properties built from 1990.
· Not all houses built before 1978 were built to the existing flood plain requirements.
· Support the amendments.
Open Discussion:
Kuykendall:
· Thanks to staff for being sensitive with this issue and for getting the DNR to agree to
the amendments. It is a very positive move for the community. They were pro-active
with another agency.
· This is probably a communication issue. It has taken me an hour and a half to get to
this level of understanding. It has been very useful to me as an individual.
· Questioned the need to act on it tonight other than tabling to a future date.
· Appreciates all the information.
· Rye explained the City had to act on by November 17, 1997, to comply with FEMA.
· Feels the meeting should be continued to explain the process to the lakeshore public.
L:\97FILES\97PLCOMM~PCM~N101397.DOC
6
Rye explained the legal process and timelines by the Federal, State and City
governments.
Vonhof:
· Feels it should not be delayed.
· Direct staff to send a letter to the Watershed and Lake Advisories for their input.
Cramer:
· Cannot support delaying this issue.
the lack of communication.
The problems it will cause is too important due to
Stamson:
· The State is still mandating what the City has to do. But faced with the time
constraints, we have to vote on it.
Kuykendalh
We have to act on this as proposed but the question was one of timing. I thought time
would be available without a special meeting to give a better understanding or education
to the public. This should be discussed in a summary with graphics for 10 minutes at the
next meeting. We are caught in a time frame.
There was a brief discussion on tabling the issue and finally a decision made to make a
recommendation and have an informational update with the Watershed at the next
Planning Commission meeting October 27, 1997.
Vonhof:
· Do not delay.
· Suggest staff invite the Watershed District and Lake Advisory to comment on this
change of regulations to go to City Council.
· This should have been included before. The Watershed engineer should have been
here and would have been able to address a number of issues that came up.
Cramer:
· It is more important we address the issue right now. Appreciates the fact some people
feel it is ramroded through.
· Agreed with Commissioner Vonhof, the Commissioners just found out about this
issue.
· There is no benefit to waiting, the ramifications are far greater if residents cannot get
flood insurance.
Stamson:
· We can discuss this all we want but the fact is the State says here is what the City has
to do. The outcome is going to be the same.
· Understands the residents concern, and it would be nice to let them voice their
frustrations but the outcome will be the same.
L:\97FILES\97PLCOMM\PCMINhMN 101397.DOC
MOTION BY VONHOF, SECOND BY KUYKENDALL, TO RECOMMEND TO THE
CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF THE AMENDMENTS AS PROPOSED. THE
PLANNING COMMISSION ALSO REQUESTED THE FOLLOWING: l) STAFF
SEND LETTER TO THE WATERSHED DISTRICT REQUESTING COMMENTS ON
THESE CHANGES WITH THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS TO BE FORWARDED TO
THE CITY COUNCIL; 2) STAFF SEND A LETTER TO THE LAKE ADVISORY
COMMITTEE REQUESTING COMMENTS TO THE CHANGES WITH THEIR
RECOMMENDATIONS TO BE FORWARDED TO THE CITY COUNCIL; 3) AN
INFORMATIONAL DISCUSSION ON FLOOD PLAIN ISSUES AT THE NEXT
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ON OCTOBER 27, 1997, WHICH WOULD
INCLUDE THE WATERSHED AND LAKE ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
Commissioner Criego added the City Council should be prepared to accept testimony
relating to this amendment.
Vote taken signified ayes by all. MOTION CARRIED.
A break was called at 8:14 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 8:20 p.m.
5. Old Business:
Kuykendall questioned Item 8 of the Minutes from September 8, 1997, regarding the lake
tour homes that were not in compliance. Rye said staff did not have the specific
addresses of those home. Kuykendall stated he wanted the Minutes to reflect he is still
waiting for an answer from staff. "The Planning Commission spent time and effort to go
out and it was not properly recorded as I was lead to believe. If I have to climb out of the
boat and get some of these addresses I am going to do it. But I want to know this in
advance. Time is being wasted on this stuff. I consider that lake trip very important. I
guess we'll go out in a January storm and walk up and look at these addresses. I am
disappointed. I would appreciate to have minutes from the tour for our next meeting if
that is reasonable."
6. New Business:
Commissioner Kuykendall feels everyone should have better communication with the
public. Everyone should speak up in the microphones. We should also have the foresight
if we know the Watershed District has an impact or other related issue they should be
invited in advance, especially with a tight time frame. It would help the whole process of
communicating.
Marv Mirsh, 15432 Red Oaks Road, distributed a handout to the commissioners.
7. Announcements and Correspondence:
A. Downtown Steering Committee update.
L:\97FILES\97PLCOMM~PCMIN~VIN 101397 .DOC
Commissioner Criego will be the alternate for Commissioner Kuykendall at the October
20, 1997 Downtown Steering Committee meeting.
8. Adjournment:
MOTION BY KUYKENDALL, SECOND BY CRIEGO, TO ADJOURN THE
MEETING.
Vote taken signified ayes by all. MOTION CARRIED.
The meeting adjourned at 8:31 p.m.
Donald Rye
Director of Planning
Connie Carlson
Recording Secretary
L:\97FILES\97PLCOMMkPCMINkMN 101397.DOC