HomeMy WebLinkAbout09/12/06
monitor the field, roadways, crosswalks and parking
lots.
c
P8.e2 . SePtember 2006 Wavelength
iMayor' continued from Pa, ge 1
Q: 'Who pays for the field improvements?
wbuld enter into agreements which set forth the A: Total improvements are estimated at $600,000.
responsibility for each party for Use of Veteran1s Field, Mr. Kramer will pay $450..<;100 ~d the city will pay
clean up of the field, streets and parking lots, finan- $150,000. The city's sharE is tE,be.'paid using a con-
ci~l arrangements, and numbers and types of events tribution already received from. ~e!SPakopee
allowed. Mdewakanton Sio'ux cbrit.mw\ity.'
Q: Will the park be damaged by improvements to Q: Will on-street parking ~"'allowed in the resi-
the field? ,dential neighborhpods'?~ ~" .:'\ .
A: No trees will be removed, nor will there be sig- A: A parking pt~ wil~ neeq ,~i~ p~ep~~ ~ith
ni~icant changes to the park as a result of the addi- th,e input of.,the nelghporhooil that w1l1 mmlmLZ~
tional seating, concession and restroom facilities. We :'anyadverse impact t<:t;F~ja!l~. > .
realize a complete site plan needs to be ,4u~ ;u ,,', ': ',-,: , \,t.i.i"~,E:;;;.,~,;,&;;:,' d.;,-
d~veloped. v
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Q: Will private property be condemne~f,
for parking?" ,
A: Absolutely not. There ~re in excess
of 1,200 parking spaces close to the park
at Grainwood, Westwood, Edgewood and
Twin Oaks schools. The'city ahd team
will work together to keep school proper':
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MINUTES OF THE LAKE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
September 12, 2006
I. CALL TO ORDER
The Lake Advisory Committee (LAC) Meeting was called to order at 5:00 P.M.
Members present: Harry Alcorn, Dan O'Keefe, Donna Mankowski, James
Marchessault.
Others present: Larry Poppler, Assistant City Engineer, Ross Bintner, Water
Resources Engineer, Roger Kamin (Citizen), Warren Erickson (Council Liaison).
II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Motion to approve prior meeting minutes, Marchessault, Alcorn - Pass (5:0)
III. OLD BUSINESS
A. Winter Public Access:
Poppler introduced protocol for Public Hearings and reviewed how the
City Council generally hold them. Erickson added his experience with
public hearings at the City Council meetings.
A sign up sheet was discussed for the meeting. Poppler explained that
public hearings always have a sign up sheet and that we would modify a
version that the planning commission uses.
Erickson asked how the meeting has been announced. Poppler stated
that the meeting announcement is in the Prior Lake American, on the City
website, and announcement flyers at City offices.
The LAC directed that Staff to ask local businesses that serve boaters
post a flyer. Locations including; wagon bridge marina, captain jacks,
prior lake marina, prior lake bait and ace hardware bait.
The LAC discussed how to gather information without getting caught up in
details of the complicated history of these accesses.
Staff suggested that the LAC treated the accesses as a blank slate; the
public hearing should be an opportunity to learn how the accesses are
being used currently, what kind of support is shown for those uses and
1
what problems the current uses are causing. Solutions of the past can
be discussed and drawn from.
Mankowski asked if it was possible to make further calls to nearby Cities
to get their perspective. The LAC agreed that it would be helpful and
directed staff to contact a couple more cities.
O'Keefe asked for a recap of the plan for the public hearing. Poppler
recapped and then went on to describe how chair would end the meeting,
after asking for any final comments.
IV. OTHER BUSINESS
V. STAFF UPDATE
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. Mankowski reported back on the Lake Association progress with
replacing buoys and the possibility of lighted buoys
B. Mankowski brought a letter to the LAC from the Sheriffs boat patrol to the
LAC. The LAC will address this next meeting.
C. As a point of information, Erickson explained the Spring Lake Association
will be reconstituted.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 7:30 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Ross Bintner
Water Resources Engineer
2
SEPTEMBER 26. 2006
LAKE ADVISORY PUBLIC HEARING
WINTER LAKE ACCESSES
A. CALL TO ORDER
LAC Member Dan O'Keefe called the September 26, 2006, Public Hearing Meeting
to order at 6:03 p.m. to discuss winter lake accesses on Prior Lake.
Those present were: LAC Members Dan O'Keefe, Harry Alcorn, Charlene Jasan,
Donna Mankowski, and James Marchessault.
Others present: Larry Poppler; Assistant City Engineer, Ross Bintner; Water
Resources Coordinator, and Recording Secretary Judy Pint.
LAC Member, Dan O'Keefe asked the Lake Advisory Committee members to
introduce themselves to the audience.
Dan stated that the winter access to Upper and Lower Prior Lake has been a source
of periodic political concern over the last 30 years. Last winter, damage occurred to
both private and public property near the Shady Beach access and Sand Point
Beach access. The City Council has requested the LAC to find a workable solution
that would be acceptable to all parties and give their input and recommendations to
the City Council.
Assistant City Engineer; Larry Poppler gave some background on the topic.
LAC Member Dan O'Keefe opened the meeting.
The purpose of the meeting is to receive testimony regarding the following:
A. To what extend, if any, each access is needed for lake access
B. When are they needed and for what purpose
C. Identify the problems associated with the accesses
D. Identify potential options/solutions to the problems
Altering the operation or location of winter access points may be recommended
based upon public input.
The following residents spoke during the Public Hearing:
Jim Weninqer. 2591 Sorinq Lake Road
Jim represented Spring Lake residents. He explained the issues of Spring Lake and
the DNR access/Sportsman's access. He said residents on Spring Lake have similar
problems as Prior Lake residents such as parking on their front yards and beaches.
Jim brought up pollution issues too. He noted residents contend with the public
urinating on their property and noise pollution from loud parties in fish houses. He
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said that with the recent upgrade of CR 12 there will be more building, more people
and additional traffic to contend with. He felt that CR 12 has unsafe turns and
accidents are bound to occur with people hauling fish houses, etc. Since there is
limited parking at the accesses, there should be better safety patrol.
Mike Feriancek, 4680 Humminqbird Trail (PAC Member)
He expressed concern about the cost to repair the Sand Point Beach. He was
looking for alternatives (eg. using the DNR access).
AI Friedqes. Parks & Fleet Supervisor. City of Prior Lake
AI addressed maintenance issues at Sand Point Beach. Fish house traffic has used
the access for years through Sand Point Beach. If ice is unsafe, cars cannot park
on the lake and fishermen park on the beach. Maintenance problems begin when
there is warmer weather and the ice doesn't freeze well. He showed pictures
depicting conditions on the beach, abandoned ice houses and damage to the
access. The pictures showed sand that was pounded down from high traffic. The
pictures show mud and ruts in the path.
Other issues include obtaining necessary permits from the DNR to re-establish the
beach area after damage has occurred.
The trail from the parking lot was destroyed last winter due to heavy traffic. The cost
to repair the bituminous trail from the parking lot to the beach was $10,000.00. The
cost to replace the sand alone is $2,000.00. The current bathhouse does not meet
Americans Disability Act (ADA) accessibility. In the near future, that building will
have to be replaced to meet the ADA requirement. The trail will need to be moved
for the new building. He said that the beach and park were not designed for the type
of activity it sustains. In the fall of the year, T-posts are put in to try and keep the
traffic on the trail. When fish houses are moved in and off the lake the posts are
broken off. Several people have been injured from broken posts. Trash is also an
issue especially with broken bottles on the beach, etc.
Harry Alcorn asked AI if $10,000 was typical for repairs. AI said it depended upon
the type of winter we have. If we have a good old fashioned winter, with good ice,
etc. people are able to park on the lake and then the access doesn't receive as much
damage. Harry Alcorn asked what the impact would be if the access was moved to
the DNR access. AI said whenever there is a change it is hard for the public to
accept but with proper signage, residents will learn where the new access is and
discontinue useage of the access point at Sand Point Beach. Harry asked if parking
was occurring above or below the 904. AI said parking was happening at all
elevations.
Roqer Kamin. 14253 Shady Beach Trail
Roger represented the neighborhood on Shady Beach Trail, Bayview Circle and
Hidden View Road. He presented a petition with approximately 80 signatures. The
petition offered five suggestions: 1) Keep the Sand Point Beach Trail winter lake
access path open. 2) Open winter lake access on the boat launch adjacent to the
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Sand Point Beach. 3) Enforce parking regulations along Shady Beach Trail and Bay
View Circle allowing occasional variances to parking ordinances as requested by
residents. 4) Enforce laws pertaining to the lake access on the Shady Beach Trail
opening at 5:00 a.m. and closing at 10:00 p.m. 5) Pass an ordinance requiring
motorized vehicles that go onto Prior Lake, when it is frozen, to traverse the ice at
least a distance of 100 feet beyond the shore before parking on the lake.
He showed several pictures, one of which depicted the Shady Beach access hours
of 5:00 a.m. - 10:00 p.m. He cited a study which showed there were 348 violations
averaging 14.5 per night and 23 violations per weekend where people were using
the access after the posted hours. The residents want parking regulations on Shady
Beach Trail and Bayview Trail enforced by enhancing after-hour and park rules.
Trails should be locked at 10:00 p.m. and opened at 5:00 a.m. as posted. Other
pictures were shown of the DNR access at Sand Point and the path going to the
lake. The residents requested that the Sand Point Beach access stay open and that
the DNR access be open to the public for the winter months.
Another picture depicted cars parking on homeowner's beaches and the damage
that was done to docks and fences. He noted that littering and trespassing takes
place on property when the ice is unsafe. He said that when vehicles go through the
ice and are recovered that often times the vehicles are dragged over personal
property and cause significant damage. Residents requested that existing parking
laws be strictly enforced (no parking with trailers) and that an ordinance be passed
requiring motorized vehicles to go out 100 feet to protect the beach and yards of
residents. He noted that with the current that Prior Lake has, the ice is never safe
near the Shady Beach access. For this reason, the DNR access should also be
used. The residents would like to have access roads plowed, graded and sanded.
An alternative solution would be turning the Shady Beach Trail access road into a
park trail for non-motorized vehicles. Fishermen could walk down the trail and it
would be open for the placement and removal of ice houses only. It was suggested
that the road be vacated for neighbors to manage.
Peter Schmidt. 14044 Bavview Circle
Peter said that in 1979, the neighborhood tried to purchase the Shady Beach access.
He said that the abstract states that it is a utility easement. He said that no one
actually has a legal right to that property. He requested that someone check the
easement. He was in favor of the five points of the petition.
Dan Borchardt. 16095 Main Avenue - Prior Lake Sportsman Club
Dan represented the Prior Lake Sportsman Club. He stated that the club had an
easement on the Sand Point access, and it was signed by the DNR, and was not
supposed to be open in the winter. There was always a litter problem but it was not
nearly as bad as it used to be. He added that the Sportsman Club always cleans it
up and is in favor of Sand Point Beach access. They feel the access should have
alternative uses. The Sportsman's Club is opposed to using the DNR access
because the slope of the roadway is 12%. He said that the Spring Lake access is
not heavily used and no accidents have happened there.
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LAC Member Jim Marchessault asked how many people actually use the lake to fish.
LAC Member Harry Alcorn questioned Assistant City Engineer; Larry Poppler
regarding the DNR agreement. Poppler said there was a letter but it was not a
binding contract. Poppler also added that the DNR may be open to changing the
access at Sand Point to the DNR access; however, the DNR would like the access
plowed and sanded.
Brian Lompart. 14223 Shady Beach Trail
He said that the use of the access has grown significantly and its use is not positive.
He asked who would enforce new ordinances. He suggested hiring someone on a
seasonal basis to enforce the ordinances.
Wendy Srdar, 14191 Bavview Circle
Wendy mentioned that the school bus stops there three times a day and she
questions the safety of children.
Bob Kelly, 14277 Shady Beach Trail
He has lived there for 14 years and has noticed the increase in traffic over the years.
He mentioned the narrow, single lane from street to lake and the dramatic increase
of activity on the narrow access. There are bottleneck problems getting on and off
the street. Noise and littering are a big problem. Problems would disappear if winter
traffic was closed off by a gate.
Mike Reicshy. 14248 Shady Beach Trail
Shady Beach access is an asset. People use it for snowmobiling, pulling their kids,
etc. He did not think the access should be closed but would like to see rules
enforced rules better.
Bill Zekoff. 14722 Louisiana Ave/Savaqe
He used the lake access since the mid 70's. He would like a 30 foot access and it
should be made widened. Sand Point Beach works fine because of the grade. The
DNR access is too steep. He would like to see both accesses remain open.
Nicole Loehr. 14247 Shady Beach Trail
She would like the access to be maintained and hours enforced. Disrespecting rules
of the access, trespassing, littering and loitering are all big problems. She would like
to keep Sand Point Beach open.
Dana Wheeler. 14126 Orchard Circle
He uses the lake almost everyday and talks to people who use the lake in various
ways. He wondered if there was a survey done on who owned the cars that have
gone through the lake and if they were local people. He felt that most are not Prior
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Lake residents. Because people have abused the lake, residents have had to give
up ice rinks, etc. People park on the rinks and disturb the area by removing
barriers that are put up around the rink. He would like rules enforced. Private
property is damaged when people drive over property while intoxicated. He noticed
when the lake level drops, people park on the sand more.
He wondered if the DNR access could be widened and paved. He questioned the
DNR contract and how long ago it was signed or if it could be changed. He asked if
sanding the access would allow more vehicles to use it. Later the same sand
should be used on the beach.
Karen Reynolds. 14177 Shady Beach Trail
She thought the setback should be pursued. Another concern was the grade issue
and removing the DNR access. Plus, she questioned, if the city put up a new
building, then how would you get access to Prior Lake on the north side.
Roqer Kamin, 14253 Shady Beach Trail
The residents in his neighborhood sent five letters along with the petition. He read
highlights of three of the five letters to the LAC members for their review (these
residents were not in attendance).
The following is a synopsis of the letters that were submitted:
Kristen Bauer, 14215 Shady Beach Trail (letter)
She was concerned about the lack of enforcement at closing time, the rising traffic
level, excessive speed, illegal parking, vandalism of private property and parking on
the shoreline. She felt it was important to keep Sand Point Beach open.
Joe Favreau. 14263 Shady Beach Trail (letter)
His concerns were property damage, submerged trash, and lack of respect for
property. etc. He lived there for the past 22 years and recent years have been the
worst.
Pat & Larry Schultzie. 14321 Shady Beach Trail (letter)
They are concerned that the Sand Point Beach winter access may be closed. They
said that during the winter all the traffic to the Shady Beach access comes from CR
42. In addition to all the noise and traffic, the increased traffic has been hard on the
road. If the Sand Point Beach access is closed, traffic will continue to damage the
street.
Jean & Dana Wheeler. 14126 Shady Beach Trail (letter)
They stated that they are concerned with damage to their fence and their neighbor's
dock. When the lake level drops, their shore line has been dug up due to vehicles
parking their cars on the shoreline. Because of this, their ice rink was destroyed
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even though it was marked. As cars are leaving the lake their lights shine through
their windows past 10:00 p.m. They are concerned about trash such as cans, food,
bottles, fish house insulation, etc. that are left on the ice and come ashore in the
spring.
Thomas V. Kappes & Jane L. Kappes. No Address Given (letter)
They do not recommend closing down the access in the winter or any other time.
They would like to see the access turned over to the neighbors on Shady Beach
Trail, Hidden View, and Bayview.
Peter Schmitt. 14044 Bavview Circle
The Bayview neighborhood tried to purchase the property. He felt there was a 33'
easement. He checks the ice regularly and says he could not drive on the ice until
February 15, 2006.
Nick Erinbauoh. 17189 Woodview Court
People tend to park too close to the shore when the ice is not safe. If people park
100' away from the lakeshore, they will go out further. There are too many people
using the lake without enough accesses and there is not adequate parking.
LAC member Harry Alcorn asked if Sand Point was plowed on the weekend.
Brett Krick. Deputy Sheriff. Scott County
He understood the residents concerns. He stated that first and foremost his highest
priority is safety. He explained that the lake is covered by Scott County, Prior Lake
Police and the DNR and there are only so many law enforcement officials to cover
the area. It depends where the water starts and land stops as to who responds to
accidents, complaints, etc. He favored the 100' foot ordinance. He would even
prefer it to be 150' to keep it consistent with the ordinance. It has been a larger
problem in the last few years and he asked the residents for their help in addressing
the issue by keeping track of their complaints, etc. If there is a good record of
complaints, then ordinances could possibly be changed in the future.
LAC Member Harry Alcorn questioned whether residents would know which
enforcement official to call.
Deputy Krick said that they should call (952) 445-1411 and the Sheriff's Department
dispatcher would know who would be called out for the incident and whether it would
be the Sheriff's Department or the Prior Lake Police responding. Krick told residents
that they have to understand that medical assistance takes precedence over
complaints. He advised residents to write down license numbers and give accurate
descriptions of the vehicles.
Harry Alcorn questioned if parking on the beach area was on private property and if
that was a violation.
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Deputy Krick said that there are two different kinds of lakeshore - one when the
water is low/high and the other was where the lake level never changes.
Ross Bintner, Water Resources Coordinator, City of Prior Lake added that the former
was called a meandered body of water.
A resident inquired about using "No Trespassing" signs and where such signs could
legally be posted.
Deputy Krick could not answer the question without checking the law first. He
thought that the 100 foot buffer would take care of the problem. He also offered that
Prior Lake can be very dangerous if you don't know the lake because of its
numerous springs.
Brian Lompart asked if other access points could be re-opened.
Mike Feriancek said that if the DNR access is closed, it is not maintained. He also
said that it would be very difficult to get out of there without a four-wheel drive
vehicle.
Larry Poppler added that the DNR access is not maintained by the City.
Larry Poppler mentioned the grade issues and the maximum grade situation. Sand
Point Beach is 9.7% grade and the DNR access is 10.2% grade.
Deputy Krick said that there is limited parking at Sand Point Beach but that is not the
case in the winter. He felt that fishermen could park there and walk the 150 feet to
the lake. From an emergency standpoint, there are not enough accesses to the lake.
For public safety, he felt that the accesses have to be kept open for faster response
time to accidents, medica Is, etc.
A resident inquired about how many access points the city owned but are not open to
winter access.
Larry Poppler, Assistant City Engineer said he would find out.
Councilmember Warren Erickson. 3031 Sprinq Lake Road
Councilmember Warren Erickson, liaison to the LAC Committee, thanked the public
for their input. He also thanked the LAC Committee for their time. He said they got
very good feedback and that it would be beneficial to the LAC Committee. He asked
the LAC to come up with some alternatives so that the City Council could reach the
appropriate decisions regarding the accesses.
LAC Member Dan O'Keefe closed the meeting at 7:50 p.m.
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Winter enforcement on Lake Minnetonka
The following information comes from phone conversations with Deputy Piper (952-471-
1312) of the Hennepin county sheriffs department (HCSD). Deputy Piper and I spoke on
October 3, 2006 about winter parking, safety and enforcement issues.
HCSD posts winter regulations at major entrances to lake and includes a mailbox with
flyers explaining winter laws.
150' shoreland zone does not prohibit parking along the lake shore, only the operation of
vehicles and speed of operation. Currently the only thing that could prevent people from
parking near the lake would be for the sheriff to exercise the authority to close the lake
completely.
HCSD will enforce some parking on the lake, for example, vehicles abandoned, parked
over night or with for sale signs are sometimes towed. The HCSD will warn people
about parking near each other and near the shore line to respect private property and be
aware of safety, but this parking issues is not prohibited.
Laser radar speed finders can also be used to give accurate range / distance to an object.
This assists both summer and winter operations by allowing the deputy to get an accurate
distance from an infraction to shore and include this in their report in case the ticketed
person challenges the citation in court.
The HCSD has 24 hour "on call" coverage, and 8am - 4am "man on duty" coverage on
Lake Minnetonka.
The HCSD uses A TV s and snowmobiles to patrol the lake in the winter. The biggest
safety issues encountered are high speed, inexperienced, and / or nighttime operation of
snowmobiles. The HCSD likes the 150' shorezone for giving probable cause to stop
snowmobiles and automobiles, and offers a lesser ticket option for enforcement than a
misdemeanor reckless driving citation.
Winter access issues in nearby Cities
The following information comes from phone conversations with Terry Schultz ofthe
City of Bumsville and Mac Afferty of the City of Lakeville about winter lake access
issues in their Cities. The City of Burnsville has experience on Crystal, the City of
Lakeville on Orchard and Marion.
C stal
290 Acres
2 Winter Accesses
Orchard
240 Acres
1 Winter Access
Marion
400+ Acres
1 Winter Access
Summer boat launches serve as the main access in winter at Marion, Orchard and one of
Crystal's lake accesses. Another access on Crystal is at the public beach location.
Homes and accesses at Crystal, Orchard and Marion are separated by greater than 100' in
each case. Litter complaints have been the biggest issues at each winter access. Both
Lakeville and Bumsville work with the local lake associations to clean up the ice prior to
melt. Both Cities use parks and recreation staffto clean up around the accesses them
selves.
Neither Lakeville nor Bumsville experienced complaints related to noise from the access
in the winter. Marion Lake has had drivers parking near shore, but no damage was
reported. No parking on beaches was noted, but the beach at Marion is not near the
access.
One ofthe winter accesses at Crystal Lake is adjacent to the public beach. Damage to the
Crystal Lake beach has not been a problem at this access, nor has parking near the shore
line.
The Dakota County Sheriff will, in some cases, close down vehicle access to the Lakes in
the Dakota County. In this case the Sheriff calls local Cities and asks them to close the
accesses. Both Bumsville and Lakeville makes their parks or utilities staff available to
close access when asked to do so by the Dakota County Sheriff.